"If you don't have an ego in this profession, you'd better do something else"

Pablo Heras-Casado (Granada, 47 years old), our most Wagnerian conductor and the most international of Spanish maestros, has taken a break from the operas that kept him tied to Berlin and Vienna in May to come to Madrid to see Nicolás, the 8-year-old son he had with Anne Igartiburu, from whom he separated in 2021. Taking advantage of a morning break, he meets us at the Teatro Real. Here, he conducted the four operas of Richard Wagner's 'The Ring of the Nibelung' over four consecutive seasons, from 2019 to 2022. Sitting in the stalls, he talks about his wandering life, his "nest" in Granada, his love for family, and his fascination with the great German composer and the Wagnerian 'temple' of the Bayreuth Festival, where he will return to conduct this summer.

-Is the life of a conductor as wandering as it seems?

-Yes, of course. Wandering, unstable, unpredictable. Now my work is all over the world, and I travel from one country to another. I make my home wherever I am, with the orchestra I'm with, and in the hotel or apartment where I am at that moment. However, I've always needed a base and to have my nest, my little place to return to, where I store my books, my scores, and that has always been Granada, which is my sentimental homeland. Although I also have a flat in Madrid because I spend a lot of time here for family reasons, my home is in the Albaicín.

-They say Granada has a certain magic...

-No one has been able to explain very well what that magic is, but I believe it's something that's there, very intuitive and instinctive, and it also has to do with that extra that you don't learn in a music school, nor during hours of study and rehearsal, but it's something that's not even talent, it's inspiration, that distinctive something with which you do things differently, but that can't be explained. It's not about winning three to two; here we're talking about an absolutely subjective realm. What makes one artist better than another? It can't be quantified or explained. Maybe the magic is there.

-You are the son of a national police officer and a housewife... were there any classical music precedents at home?

-No. I approached classical music at the age of seven or eight in a completely spontaneous way. Being able to sing at my school, Juan XXIII in Zaidín, and sharing that moment with other children was something I enjoyed. For my First Communion, I was assigned a solo to sing in the choir. And when solfège classes were offered at the same school, which I didn't really know what the word solfège meant, I signed up. It wasn't like now with so many extracurricular activities. We had classes in a small room with a piano, I remember it very well. I ran to tell my parents that I wanted to sign up for those classes, and they encouraged me to do so. They gave me the opportunity.

-What did you learn from your parents?

-Respect, kindness, generosity... that baggage of values with which you travel your whole life. Now that I'm a father, I understand it even better...

-What music plays in your head when you're not working?

-None, because I need a lot of silence. In fact, when I'm at home, when I go for a run, and even when I travel by car or plane, which are hours and hours, I don't usually listen to music, podcasts, or news. I need silence. Also in hotels. I don't even sing in the shower. Silence is crucial for me; it's a medicine.

-How busy is your schedule?

-It's planned until around 2029. Now I'm finishing a series of Wagner operas that I'm conducting in Vienna, and soon I'll be going to Munich; then to Hamburg and later to Bayreuth, and when there's a gap, I'll come home.

-Does having a schedule filled four years in advance bring peace of mind?

-Not always, sometimes I wish I had more control over my time to plan. For example, in a couple of years, being able to take a month off to read, study, or be at home. However, the most important thing is my son, and I don't negotiate the days with him.

-You take your parents and your son Nicolás to important concerts, for example, they accompanied you at your debut in Bayreuth in 2023.

-Everything my parents haven't traveled before, they do now. I like being accompanied by them because I've always had a close contact with my family. And with my son too. Since he was three or four years old, we've traveled many times, even just him and me. He's been with me at important premieres, rehearsals, concerts, operas... at La Scala in Milan, the Vienna Opera, the Berlin Opera, in Bayreuth, in Paris...

-And does Nicolás like it?

-He likes being with me and experiencing it together. When there's a chance to travel together anywhere in the world, he enjoys it, and we make a team.

-You are the Spanish conductor with the most international presence, is that a burden you carry with pleasure?

-I've been conducting for almost thirty years, and I've heard that comment many times, but honestly, it's not something I think about.

-Do you feel more recognized outside of Spain?

-I've never been concerned. It is true that my most important opportunities have never come in Spain. And for a long time, it wasn't easy to work here. I say this without any resentment or bitterness. I worked where I could. When you're young, any opportunity is appreciated, and they didn't exist here. And well, there was also a certain complex of being from here, and orchestras and festivals looked a bit beyond to seek other types of names and surnames. Now it's still difficult to make a name for yourself, but there are more orchestras, more festivals, more opportunities. There's a lot of competition, but the good news is that young Spanish musicians have more space in Spain than there was in my time.

-You were the first Spaniard to conduct at Wagner's legendary theatre in Bayreuth... is that like planting a flag in Flanders?

-Getting there is something I didn't even consider before it happened. And it's not just about debuting; it's about continuing, which is more important.

-You debuted there in 2023 with Parsifal, repeated in 2024, return this summer, and in 2028 you will conduct nothing less than the tetralogy of 'The Ring of the Nibelung' before 200 extraordinary musicians... What pressure!

-Yes, especially because of 'The Ring', the work with which Bayreuth was inaugurated on August 13, 1876. It's the reason Wagner built that theatre and the one that revolutionized the history of music. With 'The Ring', we're talking about 16 hours of music in four operas. It's the biggest challenge a conductor can face in any theatre in the world, but doing it in Bayreuth is special.

-You've done 'The Ring' at the Teatro Real, you're doing it now in Paris, in Vienna next year, and in 2028 in Bayreuth. You're the 'Lord of the Rings'!

-Hahaha, well, I could be called that.

-I believe the musicians of the Bayreuth orchestra gave you a very special gift at your debut...

-The musicians who play in the Bayreuth orchestra have been carefully selected for 149 years. Not only does the Wagner family participate in their selection, but the musicians themselves control who joins their section when there's a generational change. It's what maintains the style, the sound, the sonic aesthetic, but also the involvement in the world of Wagner. And all these musicians decide to dedicate their rest and summer vacations to a very demanding Wagnerian repertoire. But there's a passion, a love, and a dedication that they live as the best place in the world to be; it's a wonderful fanaticism.

-And those 'fanatics' gave you one of their shirts...

-Yes, there are sections like the first violins, the second violins, the violas... that design their own shirts with each member's name. And I remember with great emotion and affection that before my debut, which was also the festival's opening with 'Parsifal', they gave me one of those shirts, as a way of including me in their ranks, of telling me I was one of them.

-Does conducting in Bayreuth impose?

-Yes. Because of the history behind it and how difficult it is to conduct in that pit and because of the repertoire itself. Bayreuth is a place of worship that Wagner music admirers continue to visit in a pilgrimage that's both emotional and sacred. And it certainly imposes; it's a very demanding audience and a very demanding critique. Moreover, in almost 150 years, there are only a few conductors who have conducted there. Their photos are in a gallery that connects the musicians' canteen with the theatre pit, each with the date and the opera they conducted. There's Wagner, Richard Strauss, Toscanini, Karajan, Barenboim... that corridor is a legendary place. I've had the fortune to conduct in many mythical places around the world, but for any conductor, being there is being part of a history that begins with Richard Wagner.

-And you conduct without a baton...

-I always conduct without a baton. It's not that you conduct better or worse. It's something personal. For me, it's much more natural. And the gesture of each conductor is intrinsic to your own body, to your own nature, to your way of expressing yourself, and it has to be that way; you can't imitate or copy. And I've always conducted without a baton in any type of stage and in any type of format.

-Four hours conducting a Wagner opera...

-You end up exhausted; it's very demanding due to the mental concentration and also physically, like that of an elite athlete.

-Will you ever conduct Wagner from memory?

-It's possible. Not today, but maybe in 20 years, I will.

-Would you say that Wagner's anti-Semitism has weighed on him not reaching the popularity of Mozart or Beethoven?

His anti-Semitism cannot be denied, but more at the level of personal quarrels with some Jewish composer than at an ideological or religious level. I believe Wagner is probably the most well-known composer in the history of music and the one that arouses the most fascination worldwide, but his music is not as accessible. He writes operas of more than four hours that require a level of involvement, depth, and concentration far superior to other music. That many years later, a man like Hitler appropriated that art to exalt ideas that didn't exist in Wagner's time, well, he is not to blame. Wagner had been dead for many decades when all this happened.

-Who will conduct the New Year's Concert first? A woman or a Spaniard?

-I hope it's a woman, and it will probably happen that way.

-Could it be the Lithuanian Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla?

-It could be Mirga, I don't know. There are many fantastic female conductors, and it will happen when it happens, although I don't think it will be immediately.

-Have you ever dreamed of that image facing the audience, encouraging them to clap along with the Radetzky March in the Golden Hall of the Musikverein?

-The truth is, no. I promise you. I've conducted a few times at the Musikverein, but the New Year's Concert is not something I dream of today. I hope my career is very long, and in the future... who knows. But it's not something I envision in the short term. There are many other things that excite me and that I dream of, for example, that Ring in 2028 in Bayreuth, and with conducting it again in other halls around the world.

-How do you kill nerves before a concert if you have them?

-I don't usually have them, but on the day of a concert, you're mentally prepared from the moment you wake up. In the morning, I try to exercise, eat early, and rest well. For me, it's sacred to always have a moment of nap. And from there, the preparation begins, reviewing my scores, going to the theatre with time, greeting some musician, giving some preliminary notes...

-Is the conductor's podium an electric chair?

-No! On the contrary. It's an altar you have to embrace. It's a privileged place from which you can enjoy, generate, and inspire. You have to embrace that place and live it as intensely as possible to inspire everything at the highest level, with the greatest intensity, and to be able to listen as well. For me, it's the place where I can sometimes be the most tired, but the moment you get up there, you move to another dimension.

-What music would you play for these turbulent times? Do you think music can stop a war?

-No, music can't stop a war. But music is necessary. And the musical act is an act of understanding, of listening, of respect. And it can inspire. It's a universal and open language that appeals to feeling, emotion, reason, and is another way of generating respect and understanding.

-Would you refuse to conduct in front of a dictator?

-No, no, absolutely not. I would seize that opportunity. In some fiber, in some hidden corner of that person's soul or brain, something would move or change with the music, even if only minimally. I would never miss that opportunity.

-A magic recipe to bring opera closer to young people? How do we remove the 'bow tie'?

-I would stop talking about whether opera is elitist because it isn't. Opera has been a social, democratic, and public art. It's another thing if someone is interested in having a box, but opera is not elitist. No one says going to the Prado Museum is elitist. I see young people at the opera, and we must continue insisting for even more to come. It comforts me greatly to see young people among the audience. And I see more and more.

-In the world of conductors, are there more lifelong friends or more intimate enemies?

-Hahaha, what happens to us conductors is that we cross paths at airports or in cities, and it's not so easy to create that kind of harmony. I've traveled a lot to watch other conductors rehearse and conduct, and I still do. I'm interested in conductors of very diverse profiles and charisma.

-If Von Karajan is said to be God, what is Barenboim?

-With all respect and admiration, I believe both are legendary conductors who have influenced the history of music through their interpretations, but none of this is absolute, neither Karajan, nor Barenboim, nor others before them have had the last word. And this is what's fascinating about the artistic world, that there's a lot of space, and there will continue to be. These great figures were young, and before them, there were others.

-What is a mobile phone or a cough in a concert?

-Well, a distraction, nothing more.

-Can't it ruin a concert or distract you?

-No, no... We're accompanied by people, and I understand they're simply distractions.

-An applause you haven't forgotten?

-The one from my debut with the Berlin Philharmonic in 2011. Sometimes it happens that when the concert ends, even when the orchestra leaves the stage, part of the audience continues applauding. Then they require the conductor to return, alone, to greet the stage with part of the audience standing. I'll never forget that applause.

-To be a conductor, do you need to have a deft touch?

-Of course. You have to know how to handle very different temperaments and fit each personality and virtue into a puzzle that's beautiful and exciting.

-If you could defy the laws of time and space and attend a historic concert from the past, which one would you like?

-To the inauguration of the Bayreuth Festival in 1876 with Richard Wagner. And to Beethoven's premiere of the Choral Fantasy, a very long concert held in Vienna on December 22, 1808, with a program that included the Fifth Symphony, the Sixth, and the Fourth Piano Concerto.

-Do you think Trump's tariffs on cinema will extend to classical music? Do you fear this battle for protectionism will affect you?

-Protectionism comes when borders of any kind, including cultural ones, begin to close. Closing the country to any external influence leads to the most absolute cultural poverty, which is what happened to us in Spain after the Civil War and Franco's dictatorship. Art by definition is universal and tends to build bridges. Protectionism can impoverish. Precisely the United States experienced an artistic-musical boom both in opera and in the symphonic world thanks to composers, performers, and conductors who had to leave Europe in the First and Second World Wars. It was then a land of welcome, and if it closes now, it will return to cultural drought.

-When it comes to playing, what gets on your nerves?

-Extremism irritates me, the lack of dialogue and empathy, people who don't want to understand or listen and who think there's only one truth: theirs.

-They say that when you conduct, you manage to transcend the score, to convey much more than the notes on a page...

-I don't know if I'm achieving it, but that's the goal, with Wagner and with any composer. You have to start from the score and be 100% faithful to it, but then you can't stay there. Transcendence is what music does; it's what's fascinating about this job. And that isn't rehearsed. That also matures with one's own experience and life.

-How's your ego when they call you maestro?

-If you don't have an ego, you'd better do something else. Barenboim used to say that. The word ego has a bad reputation, but ego is determination and conviction and also having the strength and fortitude to be willing to find other ways of communication and to accept other opinions along the way. It's also having the personality to be able to adapt and manage the orchestra, the musicians, the environment, the audience, the press, the critics day by day. The part of the ego personality doesn't interest me at all; I am interested in knowing how to guide it and use it for what's important.

-What would you do on the last day of your life?

-I would spend it entirely with my family. The moments with my family are the ones I have identified as the best, the most serene and loving.